Discussion about homosexuality and religion

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by peachcake21 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:01 pm

Well, how in a childrens show could you sort of show gayness withought being it being to much?
It's so confusing. I mean Craig showed it withought showing it.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Weird1 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:32 pm

Well, Hey Arnold! did a pretty good job by having placed Mr. Simmons' boyfriend in there inconspicuously without yelling out that he was gay. It was just something you had to think about to actually get.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:45 pm

Kids' channels should focus on decreasing bully's, not flashing gay people in innocent kids' faces.

*headdesk*

See, this is why I have a very hard time taking you seriously Weird1. Everything you say is loaded with bigotry and privilege. You claim tolerance and then in the next breath you are equating homosexuality with something corrupt.

Obviously I should probably let it go, because at your age (and Peachcake's) it is very hard to understand your own privilege, but everything you say is laced with so much offensive BS.

1) The fact that you know and like gay people does not mean you can't be homophobic.
2) You keep saying they can't help it, that it's normal and then in the next breath you say that being gay is offensive enough that we need to shield the children from it, completely ignoring that a great many of those children NEED gay role models and have been denied them for so long.
3) You are preaching this idea that showing gay people on television is somehow damaging to straight people. Which is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
4) It's not just about bullying. It's about violence, murder and prejudice. It's about gay kids growing up without role models and feeling like they are broken people - hating themselves because they are attracted to the same sex.

So yeah. I'm sorry, but this is something I'm not ever going to back down about, Weird1. Because I think you are just wrong and every thing you say fills me with anger and sadness.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Annemiek on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:45 pm

But Weird1, you say kids aren't ready to know about gay love.. Then why are they ready to know about straight love?
10 year olds don't know any real love yet, they don't know what it's like to be in love..
So if they ain't ready for boy/boy love or girl/girl love, they ain't ready for boy/girl love either.. Yet boy/girl love is being pushed in their faces as well.
That won't be a big problem for straight kids, but the kids who'll grow up to be gay will see themselves as being different and weird.. You really want that?
You really want them to feel like an outcast and to have to hide their feelings and never be a happy teenager? Because most gays are afraid to tell anyone, you know how hard that is if you want some love and affection but can't have it cause you're afraid others disagree? A lot of gay people go through hell, some even commit suicide, just because people won't accept them for who they are..

And when should kids be informed about homosexuality in your opinion? When they hit puberty? When they turn 16? No, 'cause you'll be too late by then.
And not all parents tell their kids about that, they can't smell if their sun/daughter is gay.. They'll learn about it in school, from friends who are stupid and immature and make fun of anything that's different..
Thank god for the more mature kids shows like the Simpsons and Southpark and Malcolm in the middle and shows like that, which do show that being gay isn't that bad..

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:51 pm

<3 Anne.

I'm actually discussing this with my RL best friend who identifies as bisexual and she spent a lot of her early years feeling like there was something wrong with her for having an attraction to girls. She seriously thinks life would have been a lot easier for her if she'd had a chance to see a gay couple on TV. It would have helped her understand that she wasn't alone.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Annemiek on Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:06 pm

<3

Yes, it's so sad that so many gay and bi people have to start their lives like that, feeling so confused and different..
I just hope that the tv networks will slowly begin to realize that it's better to show stuff like that to kids at an early age..
There are some researches about kid's wellbeing when they have more freedom and learn about sex and homosexuality and alcohol and drugs at an early age: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6360517.stm
And it's clear that kids benefit from that freedom, that they grow up happier and smarter (duh), I think other countries should follow that example..


btw, I've been working on a comic for a couple of weeks now, a story about a 16 year old guy who's gay but afraid to tell anyone, 'cause he doesn't want to be picked on, and most of all, doesn't want to loose his best friend.. that's not the main subject of the comic, he's just a guy who's a total jinx and tries to be a hero but fails miserably every time XD But I kinda wanted to show people the underlining message that being gay isn't a choice, and that gay people often feel depressed because others won't accept them.. Anyway, I'm gonna publish it all on DA and my blog and some other places, and I hope the message comes across ^^

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Standard Toaster on Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:58 am

In Weird1's defense, while I do think she does care about people, and she's at least trying to understand gay people even if she doesn't really get it. Which is more than I can say for many, many people.

And yeah, on my last point I'm saying that God wouldn't be sad if someone was in a loving committed relationship to someone else regardless if its a same-sex relationship or not.

Kids should be educated about same-sex relationships somewhat when their little. It doesn't need to be "in your face" it could just be subtle, and in the end the parent doesn't have to let their kid watch the show if they really disagree with it.

Annemiek, that's awesome that your making that comic! the more support the GLBT community gets the better.

[also I'm sorry if I come off defensive, my cousin whom is a like a brother to me, is gay D: so this stuff makes me kinda angry/sad]

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:29 am

I cannot wait for that comic, Anne! Big Grin

@Standard Toaster: My two best friends both identify as bisexual and I grew up with a large group of friends wherein most of them identified as some brand of GLBT, so I tend to get very defensive as well.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Perhapsormaybe on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:21 am

*waves* I can easily admit here that I used to be in the "ZOMG, BEING GAY IS EVIL!" camp, and no, unlike Weird1, I didn't even want to admit that they couldn't choose. But I had an ulterior motive....

I'm bi.

(May as well get that out there, you seem like awesome people who I don't think will judge me for it). Now, obviously not all people against gays or who don't sympathize are not trying to hide their own emotions, but to me the whole thing's kind of silly. If not for the Bible, how would you supposedly know it's wrong? Think about it, we know lying is wrong and murder is wrong, and that's agreed upon by most people who don't follow a religion.

I do not follow the Bible. I no longer follow God either, but I respect those who do believe in him, and I still have an odd habit of talking to Him (...I suppose it'd be safer to call myself 'agnostic' rather than 'atheist'. I still accept the possibility, it's more of a "I don't know, and I can't go along with a religion until I feel certain I do know").

I can't stand the strict translations of the Bible (even if you want to accept the parts about being gay being wrong, there's still lots of other things in the Bible that have since been proven....outdated. For example, eating shellfish being a sin, and the right to sell your daughter into slavery). But I find most Christians are starting to turn away from that, and instead follow the loving example set out by God, using the Bible more as guidelines than a strict "How To". And to those of you, I absolutely commend you.

I really hope I haven't offended here. I don't think I did, but sometimes my big mouth doesn't shut up...it's just I have several gay friends, bi friends, and transexual friends, and as I said, I myself am bi, so I get really upset about it.

Do I think cartoons should have gay characters? Absolutely. Not every single show, mind you, and they shouldn't be making out to drive the point home, but even a single peck on the cheek between a same sex couple can safely open the gates for a parent to explain to their children about homosexuality, and how it should be accepted, not hidden, or worse, made fun of or attacked.

There have been gay characters in cartoons, but I think Craig (if we don't count Braceface, since it didn't originate in America) did the most with it. At least he showed the boyfriend. Lexington never got his (Gargoyles) and Rich (Static Shock) was a stand in for two characters of the comic, so in a way he got his guy in the comic, but never on the show.


Last edited by Perhapsormaybe on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : stupid spelling error)

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Weird1 on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:57 am

I told my mom all about this conversation and she wants to tell you what she thinks about it all and I think she's mad that you're telling me these things. *Shrugs* These are not my opinions or points or facts. The following is all my mom:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am completely upset about what you wrote to my daughter. She is an impressionable teenager and I do not want some misguided adult telling her that homosexuality is "normal." It could not be further from the truth. I have met many gay people in my life, and the truth is that I liked most of them very much. However, being gay is NOT normal and most of the ones that I've met knew it as well. I've been told many times that they were "born this way," they "couldn't help it," and that they "would never choose to be this way."

However, I would like to address some of the other things that you said to her... You said that she thinks "that TV should continue ignoring that a whole group of people exist!" I read her reply and she said no such thing, and it would be ridiculous for anyone to say such a thing. TV is so loaded down with gay people, that you would think it's the norm for way more than half the population. What she is saying is let's not put it on children's shows. I mean really, what can you be thinking? Sex in no form - heterosexual or homosexual has a place on children's TV. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous and definitely not a parent.

When you have children, you can bounce your little tot on your knee and tell them all about how the "normal" thing to do is have sex with their same gender. I personally don't want anyone telling my teenager such a thing, much less when she was younger.

You are apparently concerned about kids being bullied for being gay. I don't think anyone advocates bullying gay kids or any kids for that matter. Kids have been bullied for their differences since the dawn of time - too fat, too thin, nose too big, etc. Being gay is only one of the many possibilities. Bullys are a terrible problem, as the various school shootings has illustrated quite loudly. But make no mistake, being gay is NOT "normal." I am terribly sorry that you think it is. Also, putting gays on TV does not make it normal. It does unfortunately kind of numb people to the issue. The TV is full of abnormal things that are beginning to seem more like normal things - cheating spouses, child abuse, crime, drugs, pornography, kids having sex of any kind. But that does not really make them normal. Granted people will have to deal with these things when they are older, but kids should not have this to deal with this on top of everything else thrown in their faces from a young age.

Honestly, would you want your child to be gay? I know I wouldn't. I would still love them, but I would be incredibly sad for them too. I see being gay as an anomaly that I would never wish on anyone that I cared about.

When I was young, I met many tortured gay people. Even some that wanted someone to "help them become straight." The thought was that if they could have great straight sex, then they would be "cured." I don't believe that sexual orientation is something that can be changed. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend that it's normal. I'm sad for the gay people that I know, and glad if they are able to find happiness. I do not think they should be bullied or ridiculed for who they are anymore that I think a fat girl or a boy with a huge nose should be ridiculed for things that they cannot control. But I do not want my minor children having to deal with sexual issues on their cartoons. It's just not right. I mean really, where do we draw the line? Will beasiality be the next "normal" thing? How about pedofelia? There are already groups formed that are trying to promote this very thing. It's just ridiculous. Our children's safety and rights should come before the gay community's.

You said that "sexuality is the same as race or gender." I guess I understand why you said that... because it's something unchangeable that you are born with, but pedofelia and sadism are forms of sexuality that your born with too. I don't find these "normal" either. Do I really need to address your comment that "love is always a good thing?" So not true. Love can be warped too.

My youngest son is disabled. He was born that way. On his first day of school, he was only 5 years old. He came home from school all dirty and bruised with his clothes half ripped off. He's dealt with bullys all his life. There are millions of disabled people. Are they "normal?" No. They are who they are and they must make the best of it. Should childrens TV be bombarded with examples of the disabled to make them appear normal? And I doubt it if many parents would object to this idea. But really, is there a place for sexually on Sesame Street? Please.

If you get right down to it, there are very few (if any) "normal" people in the world. There is something about every one of us that makes us stand out, makes us different and that could subject us to bullying. You've just got to take what you've got and make the best of it. It is my humble opinion that gay people are entirely too vocal now. They've gone to the opposite end of the spectrum. They're not in the closet anymore. Now they're on a stage and the bigger the better. When is the last time you met someone and said "Hello, I enjoy having sex with men" ? When someone announces that they are gay, that's pretty much what they are doing. How about a happy medium. How about everyone coexists and doesn't get involved in each others bedroom practices? No announcements as to sexuality, just live and let live. Your idea of putting gay people on children's cartoons amounts to Hey I've got a great idea, let's try to save all the gay kids and damage all the rest.

Incidentally, your statement that my daughter was implying that gay people couldn't go to heaven is ludicrous. ANYONE can be saved and go to heaven. Gay or straight has nothing to do with it.

Please, no more trying to convince my daughter that being gay is normal. She knows that gay people exist and doesn't need any schooling from you or any other adults. Thanks for respecting my wishes regarding my child.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Clears throat* Sorry if my mom offended anyone... I try not to offend anyone and be nice about this... but I guess that's where my mom and me differ in comparison.

And Perhapsormaybe, like I've said before, even though I am Christian, I don't think gays or bisexuals are bad. So I accept you. I'm glad you've found something that works for you because I think you're a nice person and I like you. And yeah, I get why you'd be uncertain that God exists. I was for a little while, but then I... I don't know how to explain it... I could almost just... feel it. Kinda like the Holy Ghost was talking to me. I know that sounds weird beyond belief, and I'm still weird on it too, but that's what happened. I guess it's all just based around Faith. *Shrugs*

And the Bible is a guideline. No one has to follow it. It's a choice. Like would you like ice cream or hummus? (Hummus = sins, of course. XD) And I haven't read the whole Bible yet. I just recently got launched back into Faith. That whole Holy Ghost chat happened a little over a month ago. Having an older brother that you look up to tell you straight out that God doesn't exist can rattle your nerves a little. Now I'm in the process of getting him to believe (Almost an insurmountable challenge since stubbornness runs in the family). But yes, the Bible is a kind of hand book to how to live a peaceful life.

And now I will address some of the things my mom said above... First... I AM NOT A FREAKIN' IMPRESSIONABLE TEENAGER!!!! She likes to think I have a mush brain that is still being molded... which it is in some cases, but not in this one. Second, I told her that these were all opinions and that you weren't trying to convince me of anything, but I guess she disagrees. Heh... And last, I'm sorry if she offended anyone. My mom is pretty stubborn and believes what she believes firmly because she knows what's right. She's lived way longer than me, or you, so she is obviously much more knowledgeable on this subject. My opinions and beliefs are based off of my mom's in a way, since I've been getting an ear full of my mom's beliefs and opinions since I was born. But that does NOT mean I agree with her in all of this. I do in most cases... Heck, in just about all of them, but what I do not believe that she does is that... I'm an impressionable teenager...

Pfft, that seemed pointless to say, since I already pointed that out, but I was offended... so can you really blame me? My brain is a rock... that's pink and gushy with many wrinkles. XD

And I do kinda think you were using the fact that I'm fourteen as a way to get a one up on the argument and come out on top as the older and, in effect, wiser one on the subject. But you cannot say that about my mom because she's older and wiser than everyone on this forum (Unless someone's lying about their age and is really some sweaty old guy in their mid-sixties living in his mom's basement). That's why I allowed her to give out what she thought about it all. So you'd all take her seriously. And I do agree wholeheartedly on everything she said (Except where I'm an impressionable teenager). I think everyone should stop bullying eachother on being different and just have the rule of "Live and let live." But I still don't think it should be on kids' channels because it is a sexual matter that should never be just thrown out into some poor kid's face. It's like running up to a pack of nine year olds on a playground and screaming "I'm gay and in effect sleep with my same sex!" Is that really right? I don't think so.

I'm sorry for getting so defensive on the matter. I just thought it was silly that everyone was talking about how there should be openly gay kids and adults on kids' channels. It offends most people in our day and age and probably always will.

And television does have gay people all over it. It doesn't offend anyone when it's on a show like "Two and a Half Men" or "Big Bang Theory" because those are grown up comedy shows that do deal with sexual problems more than I think they should. But they do, and there have been gay people either mentioned or straight out shown on those shows quite a bit. Homosexuality is all over the place now. But I don't think any kind of sexual situations should be shown on children's' channels.

Once more, sorry if my mom (Or me) offended anyone. We don't have a problem with gay people or bisexual people being on television or just in general. We just don't think it should be shown on children's' channels.

I get that it is in some way also a matter of love, but love just in general is based around attraction in some ways, so if there is no attraction, it's hard to gain affection sometimes. So this is mostly all just a sexual issue.

If you have anything more to argue, please direct it towards my mom, because I really am tired of this issue. I will be handing it all over to my mom now while I go off and do teenager junk (Buying acne medication, ignoring my chores, eating all the food out of the fridge. XD) instead of talking about gay people being on childrens' programming. Not only because I'm sick of it, but also because I find it highly inappropriate for an "Impressionable teenager" (*Rolls eyes*) like myself, to be discussing sexual situations when I'm not even planning on having sex until I'm well into my twenties or thirties and happily married.

So everyone enjoy arguing over this touchy issue, because I'm getting my scrawny keister out of this joint. I came here for fun and to talk about a good old cartoon with other fans. Not to talk about this kind of serious and delicate stuff.

So God bless and have a good day.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Standard Toaster on Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:35 am

As serious as a subject this is I'm afraid Weird1 I got a bit of TL;DR disease, but I promise to look through it all later D:


On what your mom said:
While I agree that "bombarding" or overly pushing sexuality on children is wrong, I don't think there's any harm with having a gay couple thrown in there. Though in the end, TV isn't always the most wholesome place to gain life ideas as it can be corrupt. Plus just showing two gay people who are boyfriends isn't really sexual.

The well if Homosexuality is ok, than bestiality/pedophilia/whatever will be okay, argument is shaky at best. Gay relationships occur between two consenting adults [or two non-adults], animals and children cannot consent and are physically/emotionally hurt by such relationships. Gay relationships do not.

I think the real problem is, people think if they accept it as normal, than society itself will somehow how come apart at the seems and polygamous, pedophiliac relationships will be perfectly normal. Which I can assure you is not the case.

No one implied that homosexuals cannot be saved in the christian religion so much as some groups of christians do not accept practicing gay people into the church on the basis that they have not accepted their sin.

Anyyywaaaays I don't expect you to change from reading this, but it is good to talk about, and I always enjoy debating it. Even if it does make me rage. And I'm not "schooling" you, as your mom said [which is slightly offensive but I'm sure she meant well], just giving a different opinion but I know parents are protective of their kids so yea.

--

I'd suggest just not reading this thread anymore if it bothers you/your mom so much.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Annemiek on Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:14 pm

Right, you don't HAVE to read this thread, Weird1, that's you choice Smile

As for your mom, sorry, but I can't agree with her. (Except for not learning little kids about sex too soon, but ANY kind of sex, that's true)

And the fact that your mom's older doesn't make her smarter. Your IQ is at it's highest when you're 20 till 30 years old. But some people will never see further than the end of one's nose.. And others are open to anything and like to learn from the day they're born..

Anyway, the way your mom talks about gay people sound to me exactly the same as how people used to talk about black people.. "It's not normal, they can't help it but you don't want to expose little kids to them.. they shouldn't be on tv/kids shows.." Imagine what would happen if people would say that about black people these days! But you know what? It exactly the same!! It doesn't matter which skin color you have, 'cause you're still the same person on the inside.. It doesn't matter what gender you are attracted to, cause you're still the same person. Then why treat these people differently?!
You keep telling that they are not normal.. But why?? WHY are they not normal? What do YOU think is normal? A lot of people care a LOT for being seen as normal, especially teenagers, they want to fit in, they want to be normal.. Why denying them that right just because they weren't born the way you was?
It doesn't make any sense ><

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Weird1 on Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:13 pm

My mom says that you're all twisting her words around and she's done with this subject also. She said what she had to say, and if you misinterpreted her words then that's your fault. She said nothing your claiming she did, and she's not going to sit around and argue over something that's never going to change.

Please don't put words in my mom's mouth. And I'm not mad or yelling right now, since most think I am when I post on here. *Shrugs*

But once more, my mom said no such thing your claiming she did. It seems that everyone wants to be offended for some reason. I noticed people putting words in my mouth too. Do read more carefully in the future when it comes to these kinds of debates. So enjoy debating something that will never change.

And we stand firm to our convictions. They are not normal, no matter what anyone wants to think, and having gay couples on Nick, or Disney, or any children's' channel would only cause chaos and offend many people into a ruckus. If you all think that's a good thing, then good for you.

We are done having people putting words in our mouths and making false statements to try and put themselves on top.

Do not think of me any different for what I believe and know. Or in other words, what goes on in the "Discussion of homosexuality and Religion" stays in the "Discussion of homosexuality and Religion". I won't treat any of you any different, and I'd appreciate it if you did the same for me. No hard feelings, and I still love you all despite our obvious disagreements. Smile

God bless you all and have a glorious day.


Last edited by Weird1 on Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Felt like it...)

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Annemiek on Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:33 pm

Where did we twist her words? I read through our responses twice, but can't find that..

I just like to know WHY gay people aren't normal, according to you and your mom. Smile
I don't really get that, and I just like to learn stuff..
So, is it because you don't understand? or because they are different from your own family? or because the bible says it's a sin? or why else?

and of course I won't treat you any different because you have a different opinion then the rest of us Smile I still think you're quite mature for talking and thinking about things like this, to me you may even seem more mature than your mother.

Ow, and btw.. you think showing gay people on kids channels would cause chaos? That's not true at all. Lots of countries show gays on kids channels.
As a matter of fact, here gays ARE normal, and only denying things to gays would cause chaos.. Like a priest who denied a gay person the host a few weeks ago, that was the news of the week!

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:27 pm

Weird1 if your mom feels you are too young/impressionable to be having this discussion, then you should probably bow out of things. We are not forcing you to argue. This board is a very open, somewhat adult board. The members here are mostly in their 20's and up. We aren't going to stop discussing subject matter like this to protect you. You have to protect yourself.

I'm 20 years old, been on this board for well over a year and this is the first time I've been told that I need to stop talking about something I believe in. Well, that doesn't fly with me. Until Anne decides to bring the censor down on us, I'm going to continue having these discussions.

Basically, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. If your mother doesn't want you looking here, then you should probably back out. We shouldn't have to censor our discussions to make you or your mother feel better.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:43 pm

Also, someone please explain how two boys in love is inherently more sexual then a boy and a girl in love? *headdesk*

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by hatterlet on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:34 pm

As we speak, I am sitting in my social problems class discussing the issue of homosexuality/heterosexuality. I just thought that was interesting.

For the record, I am a practicing Christian. I understand that the bible tells me that homosexuality is wrong. Okay, wonderful. However, I am not goign to run up to a gay person and tell them they are going to hell. I may not personally agree with their choices, but I can't stop it. And I am not going to judge a person because of their sexuality.

It's like getting mad and uptight at someone because I don't like their boyfriend/girlfriend etc. It's their preference, I can't change it. I am a woman who is attracted to men, and that is my choice.

On the current issue-

Weird1- I understand your basis. My family is the same way. My father has a fit if he sees a homosexual on the television. Homosexuality is not accepted in my household because we as a family believe it is wrong. I personally have a few gay friends, but my parents aren't exactly happy about it.

However, and I have to agree with Alyssa on this, this is mostly a board of adults. That's not to say that we don't' want younger people on here, we love to see younger HA! fans. However, since most of us are adults with fully formulated opinions about the world, we don't really like people running to mommy to yell at us. I don't care if you want to voice your opinion, but unless your mother is a member of the board, I don't want to hear what she has to say. If she has an issue with your reading of this topic, this is between the two of you. Don't condemn our discussion because your mother has an issue with it.

I think I'm done now.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:40 pm

<3333 Hatterlet!

I think it's fine to have issues with homosexuality and to even state that you're against it, but I think there are ways of stating your opinion that don't end up with you completely offending people.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by hatterlet on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:42 pm

I agree. There are too many different opinions in the world for anyone to get upset about it.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Annemiek on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:55 pm

Yes!

And freedom of speech is one of the most important things in the world, at least to me, so I'm not going to forbid discussions like this on my board, just because someone feels offended by others opinions Smile

What I don't like is when people yell things without thinking it over.. You should always be able to tell why you feel that way about something you're discussing..
If you keep repeating that being gay is not normal, then you should be able to tell why.. If not, than I think it's just programmed into your brain by someone, and you should do some serious thinking about how you want to live your life; as a robot repeating what others tell you, or as a smart human being who collected facts from several different points of view and drew it's own conclusions from that..


Last edited by Annemiek on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : just felt like I needed to add something to make clear what I meant)

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:55 pm

In case anyone is wondering, I deleted that last post that I made. I think I was getting swept up in my own anger.

:\

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Perhapsormaybe on Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:25 pm

I have a son. My mother as actually openly accused me of 'raising him to be gay' (I'm not kidding. Just because she randomly asked me if I would let him take a dance class and I was like "well, yeah, if he said he wanted to").

Would I care if he was gay?

No. I would probably worry about him a bit more, and I would feel the need to get him out of the town we're presently in (it's a very conservative small town, where it's still seen as not being normal. It's a shame). But other than that, nothing would change. I'd still love him, and quite frankly, I don't think it would change my opinion of him in the least bit. That being said, my sister has already had this conversation with my soon to be five year old niece, and I congratulated her on it. It was just a very simple "sometimes girls love other girls, sometimes boys love other boys. It just happens." No details, nothing rude.

Weird1, this topic was split off specifically so you didn't have to read it. No one's making you come into this thread. I understand this was how you were raised, and I'm not out to change your opinion. It's fine that that's what you think, but personally it saddens me that this viewpoint is still there.

Sometimes you feel a connection with someone who's your own gender. And yeah, that can go deeper than friendship. You think I didn't try to hide it? That I didn't desperately fight it off, since I'd been raised to think it was wrong? I did. I struggled with it every day, I cried over it sometimes. I was absolutely miserable because I was trying to reject a part of who I was. All because someone was telling me it was 'wrong'. I moved near Las Vegas, and that's when I met other people who were gay or bi...it took me a while to come to terms with it, but I finally admitted to myself that I liked girls as well as guys. If I'd done that here, I would have been shunned (in fact, a dear friend of mine who came out as gay not long after I left had a lot of friends ignore him). I was lucky enough to be around a group of accepting, supportive people who told me there was nothing wrong with me. That it was just the way I am.

Love is blind. How is it supposed to see gender?

I apologize for my ranting.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Squirreltamer on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:05 pm

I think what it boils down to is that if you're going to ban gay relationships on children's tv then you ought to ban heterosexual relationships as well. Why is Helga's obsession with Arnold okay, but if it were Helga obsessing over Lila it'd be not okay? What makes her love for Arnold more "pure" and uncorrupt?

I think that's what's getting to me most, this idea that being gay automatically means that you are a sexual deviant. Because this also crosses the line into gender politics and I get even feistier when we get into feminism and gender roles.

Basically, I think kids growing up who identify as any variety of LGBT would have a much easier time accepting and loving themselves if there were gay role models on tv. Or transgendered role models or bisexual - whatever. People come in all varieties and I think that the media should represent those varieties so that anyone growing up feeling "different" or "abnormal" will be able to look and say: "Hey, I'm not alone. That guy is just like me."

Also romantic preference does not equal sex. Someon saying: "Hi, I'm gay." does not automatically mean they have just got back from fucking a dude. It means, that they find guys attractive in the same way that a heterosexual girl would find guys attractive - that is, they have preference and standards and are not going to sexually molest unsuspecting men, because that's ridiculous.

The other problem here is this idea that THE GAYS ARE TAKING OVER THE MEDIA. Um, no. Yes, shows are less afraid of showing homosexual relationships then they used to be, but when you look at the ratio of het-to-homo couples the overwhelming majority of romantic arcs on TV are heterosexual. That's probably never going to change. HOWEVER, there is more acknowledgement that LGBT people exist, which SURPRISE SURPRISE THEY DO!!!

Ugh. I need to stop talking.

IN SUMMATION - MY FEEEEELINGS:

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Perhapsormaybe on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:25 pm

Perfectly phrased, squirreltamer. I'm with you 100%.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

Post by Standard Toaster on Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:36 pm

I agree with Perhapsormaybe and Squirreltamer completely and I'm pretty sure that this is sort've the end of the road as far as this topic goes. We have our opinions, and you and your mom have yours.

And luckily on the internet we can discuss these opinions freely. Even if it is sort've pointless sometimes.

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Re: Discussion about homosexuality and religion

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